Counter steering

[DjPete]

Ok the only time I consciously counter steer is when I do the Rossi zic zag warm ups. I have found the best way to grasp this is simple.
Go right push forward right hand go left push forward left hand.
This does not confuse my simple brain.

I need to get some things straight on this please.
Do you counter steer ALL the time or only when hoeing into corner?
Do you counter steer going slow?
I find that you don't keep pushing, its more just a quick push bike drops turn. Is this correct?

Real life scenarios would be helpful, many thanks.

[Batfink]

Yesturfay I spent the whole day solely using conscious counter steering.. the hand on the outside of the corner was barely touching grips... found it very relaxing and could handle corners a lot better now I am NOT trying to counter the counter steering LOL
the further over I needed to go the more forward pressure I applied to the inside grip. Adjusting the cornering was easy too.. just by either releasing pressure on inside bar or if I needed to pop bike upright for rail crossing then swap pressure form inside to outside bar and back again.


BTW.. happy to hear if I am doing things wrong or of other ways...

[BEAU]

You dont counter steer below walking pace only. And you shouldn't be using big bar inputs anyway, you should be leaning the bike. If your going around a corner and are feeling pressure on one bar, then lean further over and it go's away... Try it, it works... You shouldn't have to think about your steering unles your braking hard and the rear's sliding around.

[Shifu]

How something so simple can cause so much confusion ?
The turning is one action deal. You push on the bar and the bike turns. The length of time you push controls how far it will lean. How fast you push will determine how quickly it will turn. After you got to the required lean angle (your call) you release the pressure from the bars completely. You can take your hands off the bars and the bike will stay in that lean turning around until you apply the pressure to the bars again.
The faster your go the more force you need to turn it and 200k/h finger pressure will not be enough. You will really need to use some force and your position on the bike - forearms angle (parralell to the road) will make it much easier. I've read of bent steering bars by Eddie Lawsonon on Moto GP bike just from getting the bike turn quickly
As Beau already said at walking pace you steer it like a tricycle

[Ward P]

How something so simple can cause so much confusion ?
The turning is one action deal. You push on the bar and the bike turns. The length of time you push controls how far it will lean. How fast you push will determine how quickly it will turn. After you got to the required lean angle (your call) you release the pressure from the bars completely. You can take your hands off the bars and the bike will stay in that lean turning around until you apply the pressure to the bars again.
The faster your go the more force you need to turn it and 200k/h finger pressure will not be enough. You will really need to use some force and your position on the bike - forearms angle (parralell to the road) will make it much easier. I've read of bent steering bars by Eddie Lawsonon on Moto GP bike just from getting the bike turn quickly
As Beau already said at walking pace you steer it like a tricycle

you can only turn a motorcycle by counter steering! There is no other way! Everytime your bike turns you have used countersteering, whether you realised or not. You only need to be really aware of it if you want to, or need to turn quicker/harder, ie. change direction in a hurry, or tighten up a corner, or get out of the way of something.

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On the 'busa I push the inside bar. On my CBX honda, the bars are higher with a more upright riding position, I find I tend to pull on the outside bar instead to turn.

[09Fatboy]

I went around a tight corner the other day and accidently kicked it into neutral , it was like trying to wrestle a cow to get it to go around
and for a brief moment i didnt think it would go round.

if you want to practice your counter steering just kick it into neutral just before you turn in, make sure you carry spare undies.

[revhead]

[quote='Shifu' pid='280480' dateline='1361153066']
How something so simple can cause so much confusion ?
The turning is one action deal. You push on the bar and the bike turns. The length of time you push controls how far it will lean. How fast you push will determine how quickly it will turn. After you got to the required lean angle (your call) you release the pressure from the bars completely. You can take your hands off the bars and the bike will stay in that lean turning around until you apply the pressure to the bars again.
The faster your go the more force you need to turn it and 200k/h finger pressure will not be enough. You will really need to use some force and your position on the bike - forearms angle (parralell to the road) will make it much easier. I've read of bent steering bars by Eddie Lawsonon on Moto GP bike just from getting the bike turn quickly
As Beau already said at walking pace you steer it like a tricycle
[/quote


you can only turn a motorcycle by counter steering! There is no other way! Everytime your bike turns you have used countersteering, whether you realised or not. You only need to be really aware of it if you want to, or need to turn quicker/harder, ie. change direction in a hurry, or tighten up a corner, or get out of the way of something.

---

On the 'busa I push the inside bar. On my CBX honda, the bars are higher with a more upright riding position, I find I tend to pull on the outside bar instead to turn.

]ive never really tryed to understand this method ,i just lay the bike over , and use the whole bend from line to line on my side of the road ,wide in tight out ,

[storm]

I slam the handlebars in at my turn in point.the principle I was taught in CSS is the bike is at its smallest contact patch for least amount if time.once the bike is on the line actually as long as I roll on the gas I have no need for the bars.I just hold them completely relaxed till I have to pick the bike up.. eg.hold your hand out palms facing the side
Drop the hand to either side rather than gradually turn the hand down. That's .5 seconds every corner.

[CarbonBusa]

Use to have this conversation with greeny all the time as he believed in Keith Code's Twist of the wrist 2 video which swears by counter steering & it is correct but over emphasised IMO.

I am a bigger guy & have always just used my upper body to lean & never heard of counter steering until my conversations with greeny & kingy & said never used it & it was crap. But one day on Gorge Rd I overtook a bus & came in hot & crossed up to a 35km bend & the hill face sticks out at the end and managed to hang bike right over but thought I was going to hit cliff face but without even thinking I automatically pushed the bar to clear the hill face (believe me Counter Steering was the last thing on my mind as all that was going through my head at that stage was FARRRRRRRRRRRRK) & after that I had to admit yes I do counter steer after all but it was natural & something I never ever had to think about.

The reason I say it is over emphasised and should be a natural thing and not something you think about is because I have followed a lot of riders who solely rely on counter steer & their bike is lent over but they are upright or leaning a bit the other way & do slow me down (Has anyone else noticed this)

So my theory is yes you need to counter steer to get quickly around obstacles and maybe to initially dip into a fast corner but nothing beats setting up the apexes & using body weight to get around bends especially with a fat bastard like me.

Try just leaning your upper body over the direction you are turning (you do not need to move your bum off the seat) & the faster & more you need to lean the bike the more you lean & move towards the mirror. I am not the fastest rider out there but has always worked for me

[BikerBoy]

Counter Steering.....something you're not taught, but have done naturaly since the training wheels came off your first bike as a child.

If I walked up to Mick Doohan back in the peak of his career and asked "explain counter steering".....he'd say "counter what?"
And yet what he did back in his day on a now very outdated machine, would still kick the ass out of 90% of riders that know exactly
what counter steering is all about and ride a 2013 track day weapon.

So why all this talk and confusion about counter steering......because man needs to over analyze absolutely everything down to the smallest
of details and tell everyone about it in the most complicated way possible.

Truth is, knowing all about counter steering on a motorcycle is not that important, but it gains far more attention than two aspects of riding that is very important and rarely discussed. Throttle control and working the suspension. Knowing the relationship between those two key elements while cornering will have you have riding far better than knowing what counter steering is all about.

[Batfink]

Over analysing anything can make it complicated and detract from the practicle aspect of it.. BUT understanding the principles of how things work can assist those to improve what they do!
When Pete pointed out the counter steering on a different thread with a vid clip it made me look at my riding technique because I have not been quite comfortable (natural) on the busa. The clip allowed me to "analyse" or assess my actions and I found I was being counter productive to the "natural" way to corner. I was fighting the "big heavy bike" around corners as my mind was trying to tell me it needed fighting.

Again... Thank you Pete for that clip as it reminded me of what bike riding is all about regardless of the size of bike. Now I am riding my busa with a lot more ease... having fun in corners... and slowly removing the "chicken strip"

[BEAU]

All I can say is get a dirt bike...

[DjPete]

this is a good vid too...

[batool100]

when you counter steer, the momentum of the bike helps you steer. Your bike acts like a gyroscope. So, pushing on the left handlebar makes you go left, and pushing on the right makes you go right.