Castrol Magnatec 10/40

[Shifu]

So at what period would you carry out your oil analysis. If you did your test at say recommended oil change interval (6000 km), and given that as you say oil filter technology has made little progress chances are you are going to be changing your oil and filter and paying $45 dollars extra to have a boffin tell you you need to plus the inconvenience of having it tested on a engine you may only be using for a couple of years before selling. How does that save money when you can cut out the oil test and just change your oil and filter ?? Engines now are capable of doing lots of km/s or miles on manufacturers recommended service intervals. I think Greyhound buses do over mil before they are even stripped down. (That was what I was told when I was living in Canada a few years back). Bikes in here have done well over 100,000kms no probs, Dunno what Tex clocks up on his, must be a huge amount.

Mate, your logics are flawed here for the following reasons:
Firstly, you do oil analysis only to establish the oil change interval for a given oil. You change it once the lab will say that the oil is used up - the lubricating properties had detorierated because of the chemical breakdown of additives, PH drop etc. So you get maximum value for the dollar spent on a given oil. Then you can stop analysing. Most of us, I dare to say all of us, change the oil long before that end of its useful life is reached. The main reason being that it is dirty (like Throwdown describes for example). Why the oil gets dirty? Or in another way is that metal can attached to the engine and called "filte"r is doing there? Shouldn't it keep the oil clean?
Secondly, the issue of the long mileage of buses you are mentioning. Volvo trucks will do 2.5 million miles before they need a rebuild! And that are hard work sometimes 16-18 hrs a day. The oil they use is not a special NASA edition but very much the same oil as you do in your bike. And they do not change that oil at 6000 km but 30000 or in some cases 500000 km. And that is determined by analysing the oil. By the way the results can also tell you a lot about the state of your engine (another topic altogether). Now ask youself the simple question - how is that possible?? Hint to the answer - Have seen their oil filters?

[Pommie]

All too hard for me. From what your saying have your oil analysed regularly at $45 a go and wait til its past its use by date. So much easier to change it regularly with a filter. But I'm not knocking you if thats the way you like to do things. Each to their own. How do you know the lab isnt taking a short cut or misreading the results ???

[steventh]

From looking at similar bikes the Busa's recommended oil change periods are extremely conservative. The Blackbird, the Kawa zzr1400 have 10,000km service intervals. The Ducati 1198 is 12,000km.




Cheers

[Bizket]

Shifu,

I you have a great Passion for oil filters do you sell them....I am not taking the piss, I do like the one you put on your bike in the other thread.
I agree with Pommie when he says "All too hard for me." following the standard service intervals and manufacturer recommendations it easier.

Suifu if you have some reports of the oil analysis you have done on your bike it would be cool to see how the oil degrades over time and wear, you should post some reports up if you can. I agree with you and oil filters play a big part but it is out of context a busa engine is what $4,000 even a whole bike say $15,000 and it is a High RPM, Performance, close tolerance, petrol engine and you are comparing it with a $200,000 Volvo Prime mover that is low RPM Diesel that is designed to do "2.5 million miles" as you say.

I have seen oil analysis testing done on 950 hp 777 CAT dump trucks in mining and that is time consuming and technical and they have base line figures to compare too. And the testing was not about how long they could Keep the oil but to track how wear components in the motor were wearing to closely monitor. From what i understand different components had compounds and materials bonded to them like pistons and main bearings ect that show up on the oil analysis and parts per million rate was tracked over time and compared to a wear indicator chart from the manufacture.

If you had a base line of a oil analysis of fresh oil eg just ran around the engine after a warm up and a few Km and then compared it to oil that has done say 6,000km of road work. and even as another comparison say a trackie that has spent say 20 hours getting flogged around a hot track.

Hats off to you if you can show data results with oil analysis it would make a interesting thread.

[simmo]

While your on about filters
After 12 months from new or so, I know its a bit of mucking around but well worth it, Drop your sump off & pull the sump filter out & clean it or replace it,
Be warned you will be in for a shock when you look inside it ,

[Shifu]

Shifu,

I you have a great Passion for oil filters do you sell them....I am not taking the piss, I do like the one you put on your bike in the other thread.
I agree with Pommie when he says "All too hard for me." following the standard service intervals and manufacturer recommendations it easier.

Suifu if you have some reports of the oil analysis you have done on your bike it would be cool to see how the oil degrades over time and wear, you should post some reports up if you can. I agree with you and oil filters play a big part but it is out of context a busa engine is what $4,000 even a whole bike say $15,000 and it is a High RPM, Performance, close tolerance, petrol engine and you are comparing it with a $200,000 Volvo Prime mover that is low RPM Diesel that is designed to do "2.5 million miles" as you say.

I have seen oil analysis testing done on 950 hp 777 CAT dump trucks in mining and that is time consuming and technical and they have base line figures to compare too. And the testing was not about how long they could Keep the oil but to track how wear components in the motor were wearing to closely monitor. From what i understand different components had compounds and materials bonded to them like pistons and main bearings ect that show up on the oil analysis and parts per million rate was tracked over time and compared to a wear indicator chart from the manufacture.

If you had a base line of a oil analysis of fresh oil eg just ran around the engine after a warm up and a few Km and then compared it to oil that has done say 6,000km of road work. and even as another comparison say a trackie that has spent say 20 hours getting flogged around a hot track.

Hats off to you if you can show data results with oil analysis it would make a interesting thread.

Hi Bizket,

I am not in the business of selling oil filters at all. My passion about it comes only from the urge to protect my bike from damage as best as I can. Unfortunately we can not rely on the motor industry to help us in that department, as they do not want to invest into develpment that would ultimately hit their bottom line. The more engine wear, the sonner you will need a new one - more money for them. So why improve filters for. My comparison to the big truck engines was only to illustrate that the modern materials properly lubricated can last a very long time in the engine. And the difference between the 2.5 million miles and 250000 km for the bike is more than just high revs would justify. Of course at the end of the day economics will decide, but that is the big picture. On the small one, I still would like my bike to be OK after 300000km. And I would be happy to pay a bit more for something that would help with it. We all trying to find the best oils and spend a lot of money on the syntetic ones believing that they will ginve us longer service life. The truth is that dirty oil will wear your engine very fast no matter what bottle it comes from. The only real difference is made by the filter. Funny thing is that the best available filters are often much cheaper than the big brand names with a large marketing departments.
I will do, and post my oil analysis on the forum every 5000 km, so we can all (those who are interested that is) see the how the oil changes over time and how long can it last with a proper filtering system. The spectrometric analysis to which you are reffering to on CAT dump tracs, are used to determine the engine wear rates. They use the level of oil contamination by different metals to track abnormalities and hence determine when the engine is close to its death. Planned maintenance rather than unexpected breakdowns saves them heaps of money. I didnt want to go into it here because it is sort of higher level tribology many would be bored with.

[Bizket]

Shifu,

I you have a great Passion for oil filters do you sell them....I am not taking the piss, I do like the one you put on your bike in the other thread.
I agree with Pommie when he says "All too hard for me." following the standard service intervals and manufacturer recommendations it easier.

Suifu if you have some reports of the oil analysis you have done on your bike it would be cool to see how the oil degrades over time and wear, you should post some reports up if you can. I agree with you and oil filters play a big part but it is out of context a busa engine is what $4,000 even a whole bike say $15,000 and it is a High RPM, Performance, close tolerance, petrol engine and you are comparing it with a $200,000 Volvo Prime mover that is low RPM Diesel that is designed to do "2.5 million miles" as you say.

I have seen oil analysis testing done on 950 hp 777 CAT dump trucks in mining and that is time consuming and technical and they have base line figures to compare too. And the testing was not about how long they could Keep the oil but to track how wear components in the motor were wearing to closely monitor. From what i understand different components had compounds and materials bonded to them like pistons and main bearings ect that show up on the oil analysis and parts per million rate was tracked over time and compared to a wear indicator chart from the manufacture.

If you had a base line of a oil analysis of fresh oil eg just ran around the engine after a warm up and a few Km and then compared it to oil that has done say 6,000km of road work. and even as another comparison say a trackie that has spent say 20 hours getting flogged around a hot track.

Hats off to you if you can show data results with oil analysis it would make a interesting thread.

Hi Bizket,

I am not in the business of selling oil filters at all. My passion about it comes only from the urge to protect my bike from damage as best as I can. Unfortunately we can not rely on the motor industry to help us in that department, as they do not want to invest into develpment that would ultimately hit their bottom line. The more engine wear, the sonner you will need a new one - more money for them. So why improve filters for. My comparison to the big truck engines was only to illustrate that the modern materials properly lubricated can last a very long time in the engine. And the difference between the 2.5 million miles and 250000 km for the bike is more than just high revs would justify. Of course at the end of the day economics will decide, but that is the big picture. On the small one, I still would like my bike to be OK after 300000km. And I would be happy to pay a bit more for something that would help with it. We all trying to find the best oils and spend a lot of money on the syntetic ones believing that they will ginve us longer service life. The truth is that dirty oil will wear your engine very fast no matter what bottle it comes from. The only real difference is made by the filter. Funny thing is that the best available filters are often much cheaper than the big brand names with a large marketing departments.
I will do, and post my oil analysis on the forum every 5000 km, so we can all (those who are interested that is) see the how the oil changes over time and how long can it last with a proper filtering system. The spectrometric analysis to which you are reffering to on CAT dump tracs, are used to determine the engine wear rates. They use the level of oil contamination by different metals to track abnormalities and hence determine when the engine is close to its death. Planned maintenance rather than unexpected breakdowns saves them heaps of money. I didnt want to go into it here because it is sort of higher level tribology many would be bored with.

Shifu,

Your right dirty oil would create more wear if it is dirty, and your on to something with big companies prob not wanting to put time and effort into R&D for filters.

I wonder is there a internal filter, or does simmo mean the oil strainer as pointed out on page 286 1D-67 for the service manual. I bet it does collect thicker sluge and stuff in there.

Does anyone use engine oil flush to clean out the inside when doing oil changes?

Will keep an eye out for when you post the analysis up and when you show your right you could put a kit together of how you did your extra filter and prob sell them.

[Shifu]

Shifu,

Your right dirty oil would create more wear if it is dirty, and your on to something with big companies prob not wanting to put time and effort into R&D for filters.

I wonder is there a internal filter, or does simmo mean the oil strainer as pointed out on page 286 1D-67 for the service manual. I bet it does collect thicker sluge and stuff in there.

Does anyone use engine oil flush to clean out the inside when doing oil changes?

Will keep an eye out for when you post the analysis up and when you show your right you could put a kit together of how you did your extra filter and prob sell them.
[/quote]

There is an oil strainer before the pump intake to stop bits getting sucked into it and Simmo is abslutely right that a lot of sludge collects there and on the bottom of the oil pan. It is a bit fiddly but I think well worth it to take it out (will need a new gasket) while changing the oil and clean it out. That way the oil will be cleaner longer. More importantly if that sludge get loose and ends up in the filter, there is a good chance the by-pass valve could get activated and you really do not want that to happen. Personally I am not a fan of the so called "oil flush" (it is mostly just a kerosene sold under fancy name anyway) as they tend to lover the viscosity of the new oil afterwards as you can not drain your engine completely without some serious acrobatics

[jamdonut]

Very rite, oil flush is exactly that.... Kero....Had a mate years ago that was selling this oil flush to the revheads in the area, what he paid for it and what he was selling it for made him very rich, was called similar to what we have now. He even admitted it. You dont pay peanuts as a wholesaler under the agreement that you sell the product for 12 times more!!!!

He owned a WRX which he thrashed to the buggery in the late 90's and it ended up needing a rebuild, despite the oil and cleaners he sold.

A little kero through your motor for a few seconds to sink into the galleys , then over night and warm the motor up and drain it in the morning, heaps of gunk IF u have neglected your motor. I doubt the hardcore forum members allow this!.... Most of us semi syn, does not gunk up easy.

Old oil, or if u have given the Haya a rite F*&%$#(J thrashing and not changed the oil after a few hard runs will gunk out the block in my opinion. But the new oil is a lot better , so I dont think putting in Kero under whatever the name they call it these days, (Emu oil, Snake oil, cleanser of block additive).

Just change filter and oil when very warm after a good run should get out most the contaminants. Or get my mate richer with KERO under a different exotic tech name.