Posts: 1,063
Threads: 48
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation:
0
23-03-2010, 07:55am
(This post was last modified: 23-03-2010, 07:57am by fasterfaster.)
An interesting article in AMCN under Tech talk headed Measure and Meter regarding current fuel injection.
The last few paragraphs of the article read as follows >>>>>>>>>
This is all very clever,but it is still whats called an open loop system - basically a dumb computation of fuel metering according to simple sensor inputs predicting what will happen in the engine.
The finall tweak in the lastest systems is to measure actual combustion characteristics by looking at the amount of oxygen in the exhaust and fine tuning the fueling based on that.
Ii's easy to think of electronic fuel injection as a performance related innovation but, these days, it's as much about minimising emissions, maximising fuel economy and lowering production costs as anything else
So again despite what many believe ............ oxy sensors don't tune bikes .............. well not for power and performance at least 
thats a top bit of info pete
Posts: 959
Threads: 37
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation:
15
(23-03-2010, 07:55am)fasterfaster Wrote: So again despite what many believe ............ oxy sensors don't tune bikes .............. well not for power and performance at least
No argument from me on that one. They certainly do tune your engine; for emissions reasons.
But not when you're up it.
Posts: 113
Threads: 11
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation:
2
OK, that said, what to do? Stock '99 bike, stock pipes, K&N air, not lots of money.? The thing goes good, but what next?
That's a very interesting take on the impotance of an o2 sensor in the function of a fuel injection system.
Whilst i agree the don't tune the system they do play a vital in the scheme of things. At end of day a over rich fuel mixture will still rob you of power will it not?
A fuel injection set up is only as good as to how well it has been programmed to perform in the first place. I believe the suzuki dual butterfly system where one is controlled by computer for optimum air flow is probably one of the better set-ups around for power delivery and fuel economy.
At end of day with emmision's test etc every thing is a compramise for manufactuer's. otherwise we'd all be on bike's as powerfull as moto-gp one's from the showroom.
For me, as long as quick and after couple twist's of the throttle you carn't help but grin and say to yourself oh-yeah! then you know your on a good thing 
Posts: 1,063
Threads: 48
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation:
0
23-03-2010, 10:56pm
(This post was last modified: 23-03-2010, 11:03pm by fasterfaster.)
 Quicks nice ................ power combined with smooth and lineal delivery is even nicer.
Posts: 1,062
Threads: 41
Joined: Jun 2007
Reputation:
1
(23-03-2010, 08:30pm)Katana2 Wrote: OK, that said, what to do? Stock '99 bike, stock pipes, K&N air, not lots of money.? The thing goes good, but what next?
How fast do you want to go? how much hp/torque are you after?
I think you've got to keep in mind that when most of us go for a performance upgrade we have a rough idea of the price but in most cases that blows out, as you find upgrades in one area will usually require another part to also be upgraded.
Allow around $7-10,000 for a 40-50hp gain all motor. that should see you done.
Leonard.
Very interesting. I put a full new system on my bike but it doesn't have an O2 sensor in the headers. I was fine tuning a few bits & bobs & talking to my mechanic mate in his workshop just a few weeks ago & he said if I want it to run right throughout the rpm range then I should fit an O2 sensor. I was planning to do it next week. Now I have even more reason to do so!
Posts: 959
Threads: 37
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation:
15
Cam, what model Busa do you have?
If it is a Gen II you'll find that without the O2 sensor you'll get a fault code. It can be turned off via ECU Editor 2. The O2 sensor doesn't operate when idling, when the throttle is opened up, or when above 6000 rpm.
http://www.australian-hayabusa-club.com/...?tid=14125
Gen1 ? ----a real one with Wideband O2 sensor & not that el cheapo stock Narrowband on Gen2.
Sell your stock ECU to Pete or Camel cheap 
Download the 2 parts of attached manual.
Cheers
Posts: 1,063
Threads: 48
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation:
0
24-03-2010, 06:45pm
(This post was last modified: 24-03-2010, 06:48pm by fasterfaster.)
(24-03-2010, 04:09pm)Cam Wrote: Very interesting. I put a full new system on my bike but it doesn't have an O2 sensor in the headers. I was fine tuning a few bits & bobs & talking to my mechanic mate in his workshop just a few weeks ago & he said if I want it to run right throughout the rpm range then I should fit an O2 sensor. I was planning to do it next week. Now I have even more reason to do so! 
Not to sure how many times you can say the same thing ............. you don't need an o2 sensor (unless you want to data log or monitor fuel) Simply have a fuel map built for your bike ............... thats why it's called tuning. Once the system throws to open loop it's not even connected regardless of if it's fitted or not  Due to this it's certianly going to struggle to have ANY input on how your bike runs UNDER ANY CONDITIONS when it's not even connected 
Posts: 1,062
Threads: 41
Joined: Jun 2007
Reputation:
1
(24-03-2010, 06:45pm)fasterfaster Wrote: (24-03-2010, 04:09pm)Cam Wrote: Very interesting. I put a full new system on my bike but it doesn't have an O2 sensor in the headers. I was fine tuning a few bits & bobs & talking to my mechanic mate in his workshop just a few weeks ago & he said if I want it to run right throughout the rpm range then I should fit an O2 sensor. I was planning to do it next week. Now I have even more reason to do so!
Not to sure how many times you can say the same thing ............. you don't need an o2 sensor (unless you want to data log or monitor fuel) Simply have a fuel map built for your bike ............... thats why it's called tuning. Once the system throws to open loop it's not even connected regardless of if it's fitted or not Due to this it's certianly going to struggle to have ANY input on how your bike runs UNDER ANY CONDITIONS when it's not even connected
+1 There's enough sensors within the efi system to keep a good tune going, Try tuning Mechanical Fuel injection , every hour things change!!!
Leonard.
Sorry ya' all, I should've specified- it's a Gen, '99.
It's got a PC 3 & my (car) mechanic mate was looking at it, (the PC3) & was thinking that it would only work 100% if it had an O2 sensor connected to it so that it could read how lean/rich the gasses were on the way out. I'm not a mechanic but will certainly be printing out all your thoughts & taking it down to him for another chat over a few ales on Fri night. Thanx for giving me an excuse to stand in a garage & rah on a Fri eve!
I think he was saying that without the O2 then the PC3 would be guessing somewhat thus, it wouldn't be perfect across the the whole rev range. At the end of the day, he said it is all a bit of a compromise otherwise we'd all be riding something with the factory power of Rossi's weapon.
He offered to jam his computer rod up my Busa's pipe, (arse) to show me how it would be leaning/riching out at different rpm.
It's all (bloody interesting) news to me so any more thoughts are much appreciated.
Finally, did'nt the original exhaust system have an O2 sensor in them or am I dreaming?
Also, how do I post a new thread?
Anyhow, check out the link below for an awesome '99er
www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/garage_vehicle.php?do=view_vehicle&id=1
Posts: 1,063
Threads: 48
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation:
0
Cam he is correct in that you need to be able to read the exhaust gases so you then know what settings to put in your pc3 so as to be able you build your fuel map. No o2 sensor in 99 and gen II only have narrow band.
Posts: 194
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2007
Reputation:
1
25-03-2010, 06:18am
(This post was last modified: 25-03-2010, 06:18am by rb3221.)
But a O2 will not connect to a PC111, you can use the info from a logged O2 to build a fuel map.
|
Contact Us
