Islam

[kawasuki]

Well that's a good argument and one that is being floated by the Greens. Where did it get us last time? What did we learn? Greens argument is we should be helping these countries defeat these extremists in other ways besides us getting involved in the war. It's really their war, we should help as best we can and lots we can do without going in. But we are there again and time will tell.

We can help, just supply the ammo Pete. If we go in we are charged buy the do gooders for killing the innocent because these dudes fight u within the civilian population If we dont we charged for letting the innocent die. Now all the Isil has to do now is to send over a hundred duel passport owners with the Ebola and they could cause a massive blow to any country they choose .

[DjPete]

Yep said that re Ebola to my wife just the other day. It really is almost a no win. And because these fanatics are now scatterred everywhere bombing one place just does nothing at all in my opinion.
Maybe America should really consider getting right out of these countries.
There is the argument that America has interests in the oil so they have no choice but to defend that.

All the more reason to stop relying on oil and focus on renewables such as wind and solar. It IS happening but IMO should be quicker.

Anyway yet another beheading has happened by these bastards again in this mornings papers. So tragic. IMO it's just a matter of time before something big happens here. Brace yourself I say.

---

"Editorial

These are the opening shots, but what will constitute victory? In announcing Australia will begin combat operations in Iraq, Prime Minister Tony Abbott declared the insurgents who call themselves Islamic State must be ''disrupted and degraded'', a mission lasting ''months rather than weeks''.

But the goal, and the time needed to achieve it, should be explained more carefully than by a series of repeated slogans. Otherwise, Australia risks holding an ambition in this conflict that is beyond the capacity of the force presently deployed - and that raises the concerning prospect of being drawn deeper into the fight.

This apprehension is the product of bitter experience. Targeting insurgents from the air is a devastating tactic, crushing enemy-held positions and equipment, and preventing troop build-ups to stage attacks. But early success from the air can quickly turn to frustration when the obvious targets on the ground are cleared and the enemy mingles into the crowds of cities. Already, after several weeks of US strikes, military commanders have warned Islamic State fighters in Iraq have become harder to locate.

Mr Abbott's hope is to bolster the Iraqi army, in part with the support of Australian special forces, and give it the chance to tackle the insurgency. He said on Friday the aim is to see Islamic State in retreat and for the Iraqi government to regain a ''modicum of control'' over the country. The Iraqi army has little record of success to suggest it is up to the task.

This is where the concern grows about the prospect of what is sometimes called ''mission creep''. The government has said Australia's special forces will be ready to ''advise and assist'' the Iraqi army, and that does not appear to preclude a role in combat. Should the Iraqi army suffer further defeats, or be unable to quell a vicious insurgency of the kind seen after the 2003 invasion, will the balance tilt to more assistance than advice? At what point does support require more boots on the ground? And what should be done in Syria, a vital theatre in the battle against Islamic State?

Only when the government can adequately explain the parameters of the mission will it be able to sustain public support for the military deployment. This is a US-led mission, but Mr Abbott has been unedifying with his eagerness to put Australia in the fight. There is no compelling need for Australia to play a combat role in this conflict where support, for Iraq and the US alliance, can be effectively demonstrated in other ways.

The initial return to Iraq in recent months was for a humanitarian cause, to relieve the plight of the Yazidi and Kurds. Australia's role then was not without risk but the task was well defined. All Mr Abbott can say about this wider combat role is ''we will be there for as long as is necessary, but no longer than we need to be''. That is a meaningless statement.

Sadly, some Australians have chosen to fight for Islamic State. But the misguided actions of a handful of citizens is not justification to engage in a foreign conflict.

Mr Abbott is right when he observes that only the Iraqis can defeat Islamic State in their homeland. He is also right that it is very difficult to eliminate an idea. The pernicious ideology that has given rise to the Islamists is fuelled by the perception of Western interference, real and imagined.

Australia should not avoid confronting this brutal movement, which has wrought such misery on civilians. But what is required are careful measures to escape the cycle of violence that has so long consumed the region."

The Age 4th Oct 2014

[Shifu]

Apparently we live in democratic country. When any of you voted for Australia to go to war? I'd say the issue of such importance deserves at least a referendum. What f*&^ing business do we have in Irak or Syria to send our boys to die there? Have they stopped buying our lamb chops? And all at a time when our budget is about to bancrupt us up and the same f*&^ing governmaent of cretins is constantly looking for new ways to screw us up in paying more taxes! It is just a distraction. War will pass the taxes will stay. Humanitarian reasons? Where were they when estimated eight hundred thousands of Tutsi, Hutu & Twa were slaughtered by in Rawanda no more than two decades ago? How do you explain that General Romeo Dallaire, the Canadian head of the 2,500 stong UN peacekeeping force in Rwanda, was ordered not to intervene? Wasn't f*&^ing convenient then? If its not fake threat by WMD (weapons of mass destuction) than "helping" some poor sods f*&^ing excuse for trigger happy cowboys to stick their nose in someone elses business. But only when it suits them and best to involve others so it looks like "International effort". And we get dragged into this shit by our "friends" that also gave us a Vietnam experience. f*** that! It is all lies on top of more f*&^ing lies. That article in Guardian was not a joke or sarcasm as some of you think. It just presented a facts that most people miss to busy watching the "news".
No more from Shifu on that topic

[DjPete]

I wouldn't have put it quite so strongly (lol) but some VERY relevant points there Shiftu.
All noted.

---

It would almost be better to send in some elite US military group and knock these radicals off one by one. More efficient. But alas that's not in the rules I don't think.

Or maybe it IS happening, we just don't know about it.

[kawasuki]

[DjPete]

hear hear. Love it.
shared that on Facebook

[Dale]

I just noticed on the morning news that 62% of Australians support the war in Iraq ...

I wonder how many people you have to survey to make that bold statement ..

[kawasuki]

I agree with this idea article
http://news.optuszoo.com.au/2014/10/04/t...er-burqas/

[Aussie Steve]

This will continue for as long as the West has the money to pay for it. The only way to win a gorilla war...and that is what it is over there....is by fighting fire with fire. Infiltrate and destroy from the inside. If we have to brainwash gullible people here who fit in then so be it.

Also I would bring back hanging for those treacherous westerner c...s who fight with the dregs such as Isil...or whatever they call their looney group.

[Tony Nitrous]

The bit I don't understand is, if you sympathise and support them,
you get your passport taken off you and your grounded in Australia.

I don't get it.

Wouldn't it make much more sense to put them on the next plane out there?

One more isn't going to help them that much, but we sure as hell don't want
their supporters preaching, recruiting and attacking on our home soil.

It's hard to fight these folk when we live in a country run by soft cocks who worry
about being humane and politically correct. If you support ISIS I'd have you and
your entire family sitting on a sand dune in some 3rd world bum hole that you love.

[kawasuki]

The bit I don't understand is, if you sympathise and support them,
you get your passport taken off you and your grounded in Australia.

I don't get it.

Wouldn't it make much more sense to put them on the next plane out there?

One more isn't going to help them that much, but we sure as hell don't want
their supporters preaching, recruiting and attacking on our home soil.

It's hard to fight these folk when we live in a country run by soft cocks who worry
about being humane and politically correct. If you support ISIS I'd have you and
your entire family sitting on a sand dune in some 3rd world bum hole that you love.

[cyndemgum]

Went to church yesterday. 7 hours on the Oxley and feel so much better for it. Have a blast, Paul.

[Dale]

Yep, Frank_Oh and I did the same. Nice loop ride up Maquarie Pass, out to Picton pub for a coldie, Up Picton Rd to the M1, Up the old highway to Waterfall then down through the Nasho. I spent the day talking to god .. thanking him for the gorgeous sunshine we were riding in ...

I'm not religious in any way shape or form, but that doesn't mean I cant quietly thank him for such beautiful riding weather .. I don't have to behead anyone either to get my point across.

[Tony Nitrous]

Same here. Out before 6am for a lap of the dams.
The black snake having a go at me over Glorious was more worrying than ISIS this morning.

[Dale]

Same here. Out before 6am for a lap of the dams.
The black snake having a go at me over Glorious was more worrying than ISIS this morning.

We had to give way to a brown snake crossing the road at Tahmoor.