Islam

[kawasuki]

Yep there is a lot of teenagers fighting over there from this country , oh and they also use twelve year olds also , dosnt take much to pull a trigger. Well Shifu i hope u can deal with them when the times comes. But be careful one dosnt want to shake your hand first with a smile.

[DjPete]

and yet another beheading of a French man.
Very sad and scary world at the moment.
Just don't go hating ALL Muslims because of it.
Look at how many there are and then the percentage of people who do this. THEY are the facts. It is a small minority.
Obama made a great speech last night, worth watching, at the UN Meeting condemning all wars which are happening at the moment including West Bank. Lets hope all countries pull together. That is the only way this will be kept under control.

[kawasuki]

and yet another beheading of a French man.
Very sad and scary world at the moment.
Just don't go hating ALL Muslims because of it.
Look at how many there are and then the percentage of people who do this. THEY are the facts. It is a small minority.
Obama made a great speech last night, worth watching, at the UN Meeting condemning all wars which are happening at the moment including West Bank. Lets hope all countries pull together. That is the only way this will be kept under control.

Yeh well obuma is doig what is expected of him, the French say the muslims are so peacfull, till they get 51% of anything they get there hands on, then they become the fantatical (i have friends in France). All i say from my point of view is if a religion states in there one and only book of scriptures to hate (kill) those who wont convert to islam is not worth a pinch of pigs blood,The small minority is around 90000000 out of the 1.3 billion muslims,so u can work out the time that i will take to eliminate
that minority, i would say around the end of time. Some of u should come down to Lakemba and the sounding suburbs , walk through with a plackard saying anyone who insults Jesus Christ should be beheaded
I bet u wont come out of there with your head on your shoulders, but they can do it anywere they like with no concequences.
This made sence to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s&feature=player_detailpage#t=8

[DjPete]

Of course don't take everything you read on the net as fact. Things are never quite so simple.
Her statements to me are very divisive and can only inflame things.
We need to work together to solve the problems and get rid of these extremists, on both sides I might add!
Stats can be interpreted and played with so easily, the Pollies do it daily.
Still I share the concern with you Ray.

A quick search found this...

Re that video...

The claim is, at best, very poorly stated. No external sources are necessary to prove this. Consider the following quotes from the article:

There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world today. Of course not all of them are radicals. The majority of them are peaceful people. The radicals are estimated to be between 15-25% according to all intelligence services around the world.
The claimant is drawing a line between "peaceful" Muslims and "radical" Muslims, claiming that 15-25% are radicals, while the others are peaceful.

This is re-enforced two paragraphs later:

"So why should we worry about the radical 15-25%? Because it is the radicals that kill. Because it is the radicals that behead and massacre," Gabriel said.
So the claim is that 15-25% of 1.2 billion Muslims participate in beheadings and massacres. That's 180,000,000 - 300,000,000 Muslims who are supposedly involved in beheadings and massacres.

Unless we are going to assume a huge media cover-up of Muslim-initiated beheadings and massacres, there simply are not enough beheadings and massacres to involve that many perpetrators.

Although that doesn't mean there's not some element of truth to such a claim--it only means the claim is made in very sloppy terms.

and...
The key problem in the original statement is the not-so-subtle indication that fundamentalists are all potentially violent terrorists, but that's not how it goes. By the same definition a Catholic nun is probably a Catholic fundamentalist, but not necessarily a commando-style terrorist!

Source: http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questi...m-populati

[Shifu]

The way I understood her statements is somewhat different. Basically what she said is that it does not take a lot of bad people to create bad world. It only takes a lot of good people to do nothing.
Any form of fanaticism (religious or political) should be immediately stamped out. There is no reasoning or logical argument with a fanatic and the history shows that the only cure for it is a bullet.
Having said that, the West greatly helped (and still is helping) in creating the extremists. When someone bombs your house and kills your family members or firiends, the hate becomes overwhelming and the way to extremism is very short. F&$ck off out of Irak, Syria, Afganistan etc. and let them sort their problems themselves. If they kill few million - well, there is still 4 billion more left than that planet can sustainably support.

[DjPete]

[Batfink]

Instant media promotes hype and sensation over fact....
Gone are the days where sources are checked, statements are researched and facts are held up against scrutiny. This is not so much a degradation of the media industry but us consumers demanding to know NOW.
Yes, WE are the ones to blame for allowing this trend of "news" to prosper. But the media dynasties don't care because they have pockets deep enough to pay any fine or payoff any litigation. Look at this morning, the Sydney Herald (I believe) is reported to have printed, and posted, the picture of an young Middle East looking guy under the banner of "terrorist" where in actual fact the person pictured had nothing to do with young guy that was shot dad. Imagine the hell that is going to follow him now?

[DjPete]

yep was going to mention that wrong pic too. It was also plastered on front page of The Age. The fellow may sue he said and so he should. Major mistake.

[Batfink]

with internet posting being in cyberspace forever his future may be all fukked up over this..

Just think when he goes for that executive job and they do a past history web check.. UH OH... this guy was a terrorist!!!!

---

BUT... back to the point

IMO...
The use of comparing one religion to another as a way to show how a religion is "bad" never works. ALL religions have pasts that can be dragged up and used against them. It also smells of a bit of "mine is better than yours.. na na na na na" rather than an open discussion of the religion at hand.

[DjPete]

Spot on Batfink.
They all have pluses and minuses.
I think Ray's point is that today you don't hear of Catholic terrorists, maybe in the past you may have but not today, so why is it so? Terrorism does seem to be related to one religion...

[Batfink]

Did you know that in the Qur'an Jesus is given as a Prophet and as such all that follow the word of God as told by Jesus are considered Muslims?

So by their own definitions they are killing those of the same faith.

[DjPete]

no I didn't and I'm a so called Catholic although not very practicing, church etc.
Does that explain why the terrorism is more prominent in one religion though?
Is it because of the numbers maybe?
Or is it something to do with how passionate and strict some people of that faith are?

[Batfink]

I think Shifu hit it on the head.... wealth

Low income regions seem to be attracted to any group that gives them purpose and power in the world. Maybe this is because they feel so helpless individually?

Look at the Christians in low income Southern USA.. they use religion to defend their bigotry and racism.

The "underdog" needs someone to fight for them even if the reason isn't sane or right. While people think of Middle East Countries being rich (oil) the general people are rather poor from all accounts. Most "towns" don;t even have running water. There is no future for the young so their energy must be turned to something, then along comes a snake oil seller and PRESTO you got "followers".....

For me the use of religion is just another way to hide greed or lust (yes I know they are both considered sins in nearly every religion). But that is why they can't just come out and say "I want what you have and I am going to kill you to get it" instead they try saying "you are a sinner and my God says I can kill you". Same result

---

Just think back to the Catholic V Protestant 100 year war in Ireland
That isn;t finished yet, there is still terrorism being used and we can all remember the horrific news stories of bombing, executions, etc..
That was again a wealth based campaign with the English Land owners being mostly Catholic and the poor Irish Protestant

[Aussie Steve]

Until the brainwashed minority have something to lose other than their current worthless lives things will stay the same and until there is acceptance of differences they will continue to hate those who have

[DjPete]

we certainly won't solve the worlds problems in this thread but it's refreshing to hear people's views in a rational manner trying to understand why these things happen.
RESPECT
:-)