ECU flash tune VS powercommander /dyno tune diference

[storm]

i am trying to get an understanding of this whole tuninmg process so my limited understanding is
1) the ECU is COMPUTER THAT manages the engine running parameters. it has its 'software' from suzuki

2) flash tune- using a set up by woolich or other tuners the 'suzuki software ' on the ECU is reprogrammed.
this is a windows operation that is displayed on your computer screen and allows the user/tuner to change parmeters such as AF ratio,RPM, and other parameters without the bike on a dyno.
there are also maps or programs available if the user wants a generic program

3) the powercommander or anyother similar device is a 'piggyback' computer that allows the user to change the parameters of the engine management system without 'rewriting the original suzuki software'.
a dyno is needed( maybe not) to 'load the bike' and change the software as needed. there are also generic programs available or programs can be custom written

is my inference of the situation correct? can the gurus shed some light on this subject please?
what are the advantages/ disadvantages of either system types? thanks

[PostmanPete]

i am trying to get an understanding of this whole tuninmg process so my limited understanding is
1) the ECU is COMPUTER THAT manages the engine running parameters. it has its 'software' from suzuki

2) flash tune- using a set up by woolich or other tuners the 'suzuki software ' on the ECU is reprogrammed.
this is a windows operation that is displayed on your computer screen and allows the user/tuner to change parmeters such as AF ratio,RPM, and other parameters without the bike on a dyno.
there are also maps or programs available if the user wants a generic program

3) the powercommander or anyother similar device is a 'piggyback' computer that allows the user to change the parameters of the engine management system without 'rewriting the original suzuki software'.
a dyno is needed( maybe not) to 'load the bike' and change the software as needed. there are also generic programs available or programs can be custom written

is my inference of the situation correct? can the gurus shed some light on this subject please?
what are the advantages/ disadvantages of either system types? thanks

Not being a guru by any stretch of the imagination, but I can see your 'inference' is correct. The guru's can flash your ECU, using someone elses map, and it'll be close. You can download a map for your PC3 or 5, that'll also be close. A dyno will get it closer to perfect. I would imagine the more dyno time with both systems will get it closer to perfect. With that extra $300 of dyno time you might gain the last 1HP available. Also when you flash your ECU, you lose your 3 separate maps, it simply stays on A. You get to keep your maps with a PC3 or 5, but how accurate the settings will be with all 3 maps I don't know.

Good luck

[Batfink]

If u r right storm then the additions (PC, TRE, etc) are there to adjust ECU outputs and fine tune the bike for optimum operations.
If this is right then I see Jamie's point in why add something when you can just adjust what is already there. And with the SDS shifu found and an editor you should be able to do everything.....
I also see Thompys point in having a simple plug n play style option where you can never completely f*** up the bikes operations as you can always unplug and return to OEM ECU output...
I don't think I will ever need to access the ultimate performance of the busa as I ride like a grandpa but good to know I can get it lol plus the bonus of saying she IS unrestricted lol

Gurus please correct me if wrong..
A MAP is the operating parameters of the unit controlling the motor?
A generic map might or might not improve performance
A bike specific map designed for specific changes (eg cans, filters, etc) is a good starting point when changing such stuff on the bike
A manually adjusted map from software plotting can improve performance more than generic
A manually adjusted map from dyno plotting will get a better improvement
A manually adjusted map from dyno and real riding will get best results but only for that style of riding

And a final question....
Can you edit/flash the ECU for each separate mode on the gen2???

[Maj]

going to generalise a bit here
A map is simply a lookup table with for the most part throttle position on one axis and rpm on the other ,
the table will be filled with cells each representing a given rpm/tps position and the cell will have a number , in editor and many other systems that number
tells the computer how long to hold the injector open for
the busa has 480 maps within it , a large % of these are generally unused like map switching,others are switched in and out as you ride like a b and c mode , gear maps,and others are in the background the whole time like sensor calibration tables, there is just about the same numbers of map options for ign as fuel
How you use these is pretty much up to you or your tuner , you can leave all the map options available or you can select a more narrow range and unify the maps
powercommanders and other piggybacks table is usually a % multiplier , so whatever signal it sees on the injector wire from the std ecu it changes by the amount in its cell for that rpm/tps

Original files to reset your ecu to dead stock are available within the flashing programes

easiest way to get a better idea is to download woolich or editor , load a stock map and play, it will cost nothing

[GOOFTROOP]

sounds right to me Batty
As you know I've got the woolich log box and software on my bike and can autotune my fuel and ignition maps..should be able to tune for 95/98 fuel in A/B modes etc.
Get a link cable and we can deristrict yours too.just don't let the real owner know

[Batfink]

sounds right to me Batty
As you know I've got the woolich log box and software on my bike and can autotune my fuel and ignition maps..should be able to tune for 95/98 fuel in A/B modes etc.
Get a link cable and we can deristrict yours too.just don't let the real owner know

Yeah... She will be real pissed off about that

[storm]

@ Maj, so if I download a woolich program what else do I need apart from a laptop to hook it up to a bike? Will a tablet work or do I need Windows? Thanks

---

Also I assume if you are using edit software it's like the old days - tune the carbs go for a ride ,tune again so it's a time consuming process
the PC or a simila! Yt?r systems the bike is tuned in the fly on a dyno
Am I right or is the editor more versatile than I assume it is? 'i
When I was on the gixxer forum in 2006 many were opting for ' teka box' rather than the PC
I will do a bit more research on this, anyone here used or have any info on this?
I run hotbodies slashcut & k&n filters all I want is fuelling to suit this set up, increase or remove rpm restrictions at redline to 12,500 and the bottom 4 gears restrictions. I never tried or cared about the A,B.C. Modes. Suggestions and knowledge please

[jamie]

If u r right storm then the additions (PC, TRE, etc) are there to adjust ECU outputs and fine tune the bike for optimum operations.
If this is right then I see Jamie's point in why add something when you can just adjust what is already there. And with the SDS shifu found and an editor you should be able to do everything.....
I also see Thompys point in having a simple plug n play style option where you can never completely f*** up the bikes operations as you can always unplug and return to OEM ECU output...
I don't think I will ever need to access the ultimate performance of the busa as I ride like a grandpa but good to know I can get it lol plus the bonus of saying she IS unrestricted lol

Gurus please correct me if wrong..
A MAP is the operating parameters of the unit controlling the motor?
A generic map might or might not improve performance
A bike specific map designed for specific changes (eg cans, filters, etc) is a good starting point when changing such stuff on the bike
A manually adjusted map from software plotting can improve performance more than generic
A manually adjusted map from dyno plotting will get a better improvement
A manually adjusted map from dyno and real riding will get best results but only for that style of riding

And a final question....
Can you edit/flash the ECU for each separate mode on the gen2???

Yep using woolich u can have 3 different maps if u choose for your ABC mode switch. 1 for commuting, 1 for drag racing and 1 for being a hooligan. Options are endless. I had a wideband fitted to mine so i could get data on the track, dyno and road.It really allows u to try things and see what works and what doesnt. I have all the flashing gear for sale since my busa was written off yesterday. Logbox/datalogger, wideband and laptop with ecu editor and woolich softwares installed going cheap

[Batfink]

HOLEY shyte Jamie... U okay?

[jamie]

HOLEY shyte Jamie... U okay?

all good mate

[Camel]

I've flashed dozens of Hayabusas, Gen I and II, using both ECU Editor and WRT. I've flashed my bikes more times than I care to remember. I've been tuning multi-cylinder race bikes since the late 70's. I much prefer using a laptop over changing jets and advance springs. Speak to any of the Busa owners whose bikes I've flashed. They'll tell you the bike runs smoother than stock and has more kick. Personally I prefer WRT for the street bikes as you can maintain cylinder offset and gear based maps. It comes down to cost and pose. You can fork out big bucks for a piggy back and show everyone that you have one. Or you can pay less and feel the difference. But you won't have anything to show off except a drag strip tab.

[Shifu]

It is fantastic to see so much enthusiasm about it but there is also a need for some caution. Unless you have at least a mechanical background, are willing to learn a lot of new stuff and have a habit of asking questions on anything you are unsure of - beware that there is a very real possibility of damaging the hardware by using the software Secondary these products are intended for off road racing use as it is illegal to tamper with emission control systems in a road registered vehicle So there, I had to say that so my conscience is clear now

Have fun

[draughtrider]

So to put a simple spin on this, I could buy an X-TRE, I could buy a PCx but I can leave everything pretty much stock and achieve the same things with room for much more 'down the track' if I so desire, If I get the Woolich. Seems like a no-brainer. Can add the logger and o2 stuff later if needed.

Question re reflashing, can this fix speedo also? (does speedo need fixing? I try not to look at it ...)

---

... and the supplementary question - Woolich has 15 ECU's listed for Gen2. If I were to acquire a second ECU 'for fun' so I could literally leave the first untouched in any way, would I have to match exactly or would any do (plus or minus minor fixes/etc) ...

[Shifu]

So to put a simple spin on this, I could buy an X-TRE, I could buy a PCx but I can leave everything pretty much stock and achieve the same things with room for much more 'down the track' if I so desire, If I get the Woolich. Seems like a no-brainer. Can add the logger and o2 stuff later if needed.

Question re reflashing, can this fix speedo also? (does speedo need fixing? I try not to look at it ...)

---

... and the supplementary question - Woolich has 15 ECU's listed for Gen2. If I were to acquire a second ECU 'for fun' so I could literally leave the first untouched in any way, would I have to match exactly or would any do (plus or minus minor fixes/etc) ...

You do not need the X-TRE or PC at all. It is a complete waste of money as you can do all that in the ECU that is already on the bike. Instead spend the money on a harness and the wideband HO2 sensor with a log box from Woolich. They do a good bundle deal. That will allow you to disable the restrictions, modify some usefull settings, add the quickshifter (if you whish) as well as tune the AFR properly for most efficient running. It is the best "tech bling" you can get. The bike will still be road legal (untill you get stuck into the emission control system which would be only a mater of time) and you do not need to worry about the speedo. You will need to do some learning though, so if you not inclined that way do not bother as you will end up dissapointed and frustrated. There is a lot of help and the forum on Woolich site if you get stuck. Good luck

[Camel]

Question re reflashing, can this fix speedo also? (does speedo need fixing? I try not to look at it ...)

---

... and the supplementary question - Woolich has 15 ECU's listed for Gen2. If I were to acquire a second ECU 'for fun' so I could literally leave the first untouched in any way, would I have to match exactly or would any do (plus or minus minor fixes/etc) ...

Re: Speedo. Speedo isn't affected.

Re: Second ECU - not required, (and there's immobilizer issues to deal with). A Hayabusa ECU comes prepackaged with two complete and identical sets of maps. Sort of like having a spare. Normally you wouldn't access the spare but there is a trick; pin 58 is connected to a Black/White wire which goes to ground. If you sever this wire you have access to your 'spare' set of maps. If you connect a toggle switch in series you can happily switch between one set of maps and the other set of maps. It even works in 'real time' 'on the fly' as the engine is running and you're cruising along. These maps are known as MS0 and MS1, meaning 'Map Select Off' and Map Select On' respectively. Pin 58 is known as 'Map Select' on the ECU pin out diagram.

Now here is the wonderful part. In ECU Editor or WRT software you can modify each set of maps to your hearts content. Or you can modify just one of them and leave the other one completely stock. That way you can switch back to stock at any time you like.

Too good to be true? Totally incredulous are you? Believe me it works. A simple way to 'see' the evidence is via a wide band AFR display. My modified maps run leaner (stock is too rich) and at idle show 14.2 parts air to one part fuel. If I flick my toggle switch, (with engine running) the display will change to display the stock reading of around 12.9:1. Or you can run wild and say, make your third gear map run excessively rich! Ride it and spray following cars with soot and unburned fuel when you change into third. Then flick your dash-mounted toggle switch to select your stock maps and as if by magic third gear behaves itself again!

Have we mentioned nitrous oxide and the Map Select switch yet?

Camel