ECU / Injector Queston--re K8

[GRUNTMAX]

QUESTION;
1580cc Big Block Stroker Motor with K8 8 injector throttle body.
1) Any aftermarket injectors to fit this throttlebody & fuel rail for 270HP ?
2) Motoc M800 OK for this ?
3) Has Boostbysmith sorted out a unit for the K8 as yet ?

[spamanglenn]

you,ve got 8 gsxr1000 injectors on a gen2.thats 400hp worth of flow,why would you need bigger injectors to make 240-250real hp?Jamies dyno is the highest reading dyno in Australia,don,t gear up for horsepower it doesn,t make.dads gen1 with yosh cams and a pipe made 191hp on that dyno and 167hp on a realistic one.ring mike at sae outlaw perfomance in america,hes building billet rails for the gen2,s now.If you ramp up the pressure as well it may help make it easier and safer to tune at high rpm with the bigger volume sitting right behind the injector,less fluctuating fuel pressure the injector flows fuel at.

[Maj]

K8 reflash is downloadable for viewing but still lots of work to do to identify maps (480 maps to figure out) and the file is too big to use yet.
The reflash unit for the K8 will be different too and the software to flash.
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?f...469024&p=2

If you can afford it and the dyno time to tune properly the m800 would be the best option , also if you can find someone that knows the Motec and bikes well enough to do it right

Injectors shouldn't be that hard to find, just a matter of identifying the maker and cross referencing inlet/outlet and electrical connector styles and sizes or just modifying the fit to suit a commonly available injector.

[GRUNTMAX]

Thanks Spam & Maj,

Spam- no need to have a dig at Jamie mate. I'm building the motor myself. It won't get put on any Dyno until it's in the bike and the work is finished. I've been told each of the 8 injectors will put out 280 cc/min but no @ what psi was given. Brocks advised me that that cc of Busa motor will put out 260-270 hp- the head is being sent to them for the Street Chaos job and Street Chaos Cams. 1580cc 86mm offset big block with 5mm offset stoker crank in pre 2007 motor thrown in a 2008 frame
Yes the Billet Rails are available to fit the stock injectors through Schnitz. Already have an Aeromotive Fuel Regulator, looks like I'll have to get a Bosch Fuel Pump using the stock Keihin injectors.
Thought I might be able to get away with only using the stock in tank fuel pump that puts out 64 + psi. Just go to rceng.com for the pressure calculations and injector sizing, but what do I work it out at, 4 or 8 injectors cause apparently the secondary injectors kick in on throttle position & load ?

Maj- Thanks for the info. By the time I get around to it, you never know, they just might have finished that K8 reflash unit.
I already have a pre K8 Motec Wiring harness for M400 or M800. Do you think it will go with the K8 OK ? Even got the Cam sensor sorted out for one.
Jamie @ S & R is good with the Motecs as I previously had one in my 300 HP turbo job that ended up totally written off and in the Drunk Woman Drivers passenger door. It had an M4 in it though.
Will M400 or M800 drive all 8 injectors on the K8 as the Motec Manuals don't seem to specificly refer to this type of injector set up?

[Maj]

Motec m800 will have no probs with 8 injectors,should be able to stage them in like the std ecu does ,

[GRUNTMAX]

Motec m800 will have no probs with 8 injectors,should be able to stage them in like the std ecu does ,

Thanks Maj, so the pre-K8 M800 harness will be OK you reckon ?
All the wires are labelled, so even a brain injured busa rider with a multimeter like me should be able to handle it.

[spamanglenn]

Ive known jamie for about 21 years now.Hes cool,just saying it how it is.Jason ellem has a 1585 busa,maybe speak to him about setup realities.I know it took about 1.1L/minute to make about 170hp at the tyre with stock compression.with higher compression you use less fuel for horsepower made.Even 2L/minute is well within what the intank pump can flow.My intank walbro at 55psi rail pressure flows 3.4L/minute and the recirculation occurs within the tank not heating up in the fuel lines on an external reg set up.Sounds like an awesome motor if it can be built reliably.

[GRUNTMAX]

Just been advised by an extremely knowledgeable USA connection
Bosch EV-14's with Jetronic Connectors. Just trying to find out if they'll fit the fuel rail & throttle body. What do ya reckon ?
[attachment=5367]

[Maj]

Don't know enough specificaly about the k8 but i would expect any wiring differences would not be difficult to overcome.
those injectors look a bit like the Dodge srt4 , maybe a different connector though,
Look like 14mm for the throttlebody and rail, ev6 is 14mm,

[GRUNTMAX]

No worries Maj, to and from the expert as below;

"What are the best part number Bosch EV-14â€s to use for this motor?
Iâ€d go for the Jetronic connector big flow rate.
By your experience, will 8 of these injectors fit the 2008â€s stock fuel rail ?
Donâ€t know. My customers handled that, havenâ€t asked…. Iâ€ll try and find out."
END QUOTE.

Just happen to have 1 x Stock Injector at my Shed, wil measure it up myself and compare tommorrow. If I remember. Rode 20 miles out there today to do that, and when I got out there, totally forgot what I rode out there in the 1st place for, life's kind of like that when one has a brain injury. Thanks so much to you & spam for trying to help. I'll let you know.

[GRUNTMAX]

Gday,
Haven't been back to the shed yet, but I know the K8's Stock Keihin Injectors are real real small.
There's more than 1 way to skin a cat!
1) Leave the stock fuel pump in that puts out 64psi max.
2) Fit a Walbro in line pump.
3) Fit the 8 x Stock Injector Fuel Rail so the stock fuel rail don't explode with the pressure.
4) Fit the Aeromotive Fuel Regulator(got new 1 already) that puts out 70psi max. Set up to 70psi or less.
5) Wire up one of these Fuel pump speed controllers to the Walbro & Bob's your uncle, stock injectors and all ?
Note the attachments. Calcs are done for 4 injectors. So should me more than enough.
What do ya reckon ?

[attachment=5378]
[attachment=5379]

[GRUNTMAX]

Here ya go.
K8 Stock Injector- small or what.
KEIHIN
F
VC31
294.2 KPa = 42.67 psi
Aeromotive 13105 has 35 - 80 psi discharge pressure. At least I won't have to screw it down all the way.
[attachment=5381]
[attachment=5382]
What do ya reckon ?

[Maj]

may be easier to just test your injectors & confirm the flow , roughly you want 5cc/min/hp
eg:270hp or 67.5 each cyl will need around 338cc/min,
I have heard figures of 250cc per injector, you and Glen have similar listed above , shouldn't be difficult to even get 270hp with std injectors and a bazzaz or 2 powercommanders

[spamanglenn]

I,m told they are the same as gsxr1000 k7 injectors.do a flow test on them preferably with fuel and not bosch testing fluid as it will give you a misleadingly higher result.Wind up the pressure to them till you get around 80% duty cycle at the horsepower/flow rate you want.Bear in mind at speed you,ll need more flow.A 13:1 air fuel map on a dyno often shows 13.6-13.8:1 on my wideband in 4th at the drags.I drilled out the stock internal filter as the fuel flow lines internally are 1/4 of a 6mm hole.When you pull the pump/filter assembly off the barb on the base plate,have a look up that hole at the size of the hole you have to support 270hp with.I fitted an inline external filter with a cleanable sintered metal filter.The upshot is i rarely have to touch my fuel map these days, when previously it was always changing.

[GRUNTMAX]

Thanks guys,
Was told about the 2 x Power Commanders technique before from the same bloke that advised me that they were 280cc/min each.
Originally, I put a Bazzaz Unit with Traction Control in the 1340cc K8, it never worked, would only rev up to 3000rpm, sent it back to the USA twice, so 2 different Bazzaz new Units, exactly the same thing.
I got a full refund, in the end they reckoned it was a connector problem & apparently Bazzaz has now got the problem sorted out (?)as I was not the only one.
At least with the Powercommander that only hooks up to the lower 4 primary injectors, you can "Trim" the fuel to each cylinder. With the Bazzaz you can not & using one now would make my 4 x EGT gauges useless.
I really understand what you saying about the intank pump fuel filter, it blocks real easy. About 6 times now, with all my Busas, including the K8, had to take the tank off, dump all the fuel, pull the pump & clean the filter. I now travel with a "MR FUNNEL FUEL FILTER FUNNEL" in my backpack or tank bag, about the cheapest thing from Schnitz.
Thanks heaps for the info.
Much appreciated.