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+--- Thread: Front wheel lock-up (/showthread.php?tid=14120)
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Front wheel lock-up - Champs - 23-12-2009
A friend of mine who rides a BMW had a bad off on an open highway while cruising when the front wheel instantly locked up, stoppied the bike, spat him down the road, and then cartwheeled itself into the scrub as a write-off.
He is an experienced rider and ex-racer, and in his words grabbing a huge handful of front brake wouldn't have been enough to do the same as what happened.
On inspection of the bike when he was released from hospital there was no evidence of rotor damage, brake lock-up, sticks lodged in the wheel/rotor, or dead furry animal evidence on the bike or road.
The friendly NSW constabulary has charged him with not being in sufficient control - simply because there was no evidence of what caused the accident and they figured it would help to charge him with at least something!!!! He will be fighting the charge.
Has anyone heard of or perhaps experienced anything the same or similar? It seems very strange. Any experiences or knowledge might help him out with understanding or at least knowing it isn't all in his mind!!
RE: Front wheel lock-up - Madmax - 23-12-2009
(23-12-2009, 09:31pm)Champs Wrote: A friend of mine who rides a BMW had a bad off on an open highway while cruising when the front wheel instantly locked up, stoppied the bike, spat him down the road, and then cartwheeled itself into the scrub as a write-off.
He is an experienced rider and ex-racer, and in his words grabbing a huge handful of front brake wouldn't have been enough to do the same as what happened.
On inspection of the bike when he was released from hospital there was no evidence of rotor damage, brake lock-up, sticks lodged in the wheel/rotor, or dead furry animal evidence on the bike or road.
The friendly NSW constabulary has charged him with not being in sufficient control - simply because there was no evidence of what caused the accident and they figured it would help to charge him with at least something!!!! He will be fighting the charge.
Has anyone heard of or perhaps experienced anything the same or similar? It seems very strange. Any experiences or knowledge might help him out with understanding or at least knowing it isn't all in his mind!!
Was it a model with ABS?
If so has there been a fault, either software or hardware?
Tough trying to prove not fault when the evidence is now normal looking.
RE: Front wheel lock-up - Champs - 23-12-2009
I don't think it was an ABS model as he would've mentioned it, but I will put it to him - thanks.
RE: Front wheel lock-up - fasterfaster - 23-12-2009
More info ? speed involved ie cruising at what speed ?
Generally speaking even if the wheel bearings siezed and locked the wheel solid instantly the bike would not do a stoppie. The front wheel would skid ....... you can try this whilst riding along. Simply quickly grab a handful of brake and the wheel will skid then release the brake. To get the stoppie effect one would need to set up the contact patch on the tyre by first loading the front wheel then applying the brake hard after contact patch has been formed.
So to me must be more to the story / incident ?
But again to ride along and have the front wheel instantly cease rotation would cause the front wheel to wash out from under you not put the bike in an endo situation. There just isn't the time or environment for weight transfer to give the tyre enough bite for an endo situation.
This is assuming he was in the correct riding position at the time the incident occured (Not hanging forward over the bars to see if the headlight was working ? )
Have seen a mono gone wrong and when the front came down the wheel was way crossed up and the result was indeed a spectacular endo.
Just for interest sake the Beemer ..................does it have ABS
Note here ........... Not casting dispersions on your friends story ............. just one can't change the laws of physics.
Aaaah great minds Max lmao
RE: Front wheel lock-up - Champs - 23-12-2009
(23-12-2009, 09:41pm)fasterfaster Wrote: More info ? speed involved ie cruising at what speed ?
about 100 k's give or take
Generally speaking even if the wheel bearings siezed and locked the wheel solid instantly the bike would not do a stoppie. The front wheel would skid ....... you can try this whilst riding along. Simply quickly grab a handful of brake and the wheel will skid then release the brake. To get the stoppie effect one would need to set up the contact patch on the tyre by first loading the front wheel then applying the brake hard after contact patch has been formed.
So to me must be more to the story / incident ?
He is anal about maintenance, and on every bike he has owned he practices the grab a handful of brakes to learn the individual dynamics in case he has to rely on it
But again to ride along and have the front wheel instantly cease rotation would cause the front wheel to wash out from under you not put the bike in an endo situation.
Excellent point. The end result was a stoppie theat bucked him, and then the bike was unstable and cartwheeled, so ther must've been an element of progressive application even if fast - enough to catch him off guard while in cruise mode.
Just for interest sake the Beemer ..................does it have ABS
Aaaah great minds Max lmao
RE: Front wheel lock-up - fasterfaster - 23-12-2009
Champs could only think some form of ABS malfunction (but even find that doubtfull given it's design is to obtain the direct opposite) ................. if no ABS then it's got me buggered as to what could / would cause it ?
RE: Front wheel lock-up - motoplast - 23-12-2009
I have to agree with Pete, front wheel would lock up & wash out, result: low or high side, endo? doubt it. Have owned a few late model Beemers, never heard of it happenning, both non equipped ABS and those with ABS, not doubting ur mates story but if it did happen, perhaps he has confused himself as to how?! If w/brg's were at fault, to lock up is not instant, they would be sending u messages long before seizure, then post accident if they were to free themselves, there would be evidence/ excessive play etc.
If there is an ABS problem download the computer via a scanner that can read Beemers.
Very strange without rider input!?!
Cheers,
Tex & Bundy
RE: Front wheel lock-up - Bill Gaheer - 24-12-2009
> a bad wheel bearing won't cause this - I have ridden my busa for almost a year with bad wheel bearings. when I changed them I had almost 1\2 inch play in the wheels.
> no amount of a stick or metal object thrown in the wheel will cause this - it's been proven on one of the discovery channel show
> interestingly the only thing that's quite possible is that his fork lug ( which holds the front wheel rod) broke or cracked locking the wheel, hence the crash. this is a known issue on few of the beemers.
I have a artical in one of the mag (not local I think) talking about the problem - btw what was the model of the bike
cheers
Bill
RE: Front wheel lock-up - NEMESIS - 24-12-2009
Dont you love that...
When you have a stack,regardless of CAUSE some police will fine you
with 'failure to have full control of the vehicle '.
Which my instant reply was at the time
when it happend to me was ' no shit d***head i came off '.
Let us know how your mate goes with it.
Is he ok?
Any injuries?
RE: Front wheel lock-up - Champs - 24-12-2009
I will ask him which model and whether it was ABS or not and let you know. I agree with you (and so does he) that it is the wierdest shit that he has heard of and had the misfortune to experience in all his riding history.
Injuries? He was wearing an armoured textile BMW suit but he was still black and blue, broken bone in his hand and a broken toe..... and now he talks like a kiwi - poor bugger
RE: Front wheel lock-up - GRUNTMAX - 24-12-2009
A) Your friend will need an "Expert Witness" an ex-BMW Motorcycle Engineer & a recent receipt from a BMW Service Centre that includes front brakes in order to sue BMW.
or
B) Due to your mates collision he had a slight Frontal Cerebral Brain Injury and temporarily lost his memory. Make sure he complains to his doctor about headaches from the severe bash he got on the head that he failed to mention before. Your mate just had a memory flashback and remembered a Kangaroo or dog jumping out in front of the motorcycle.
Then the pigs will be fuc*ed with the alleged offence in court.
Any witnesses ? --- no ---- his got the bacon fuc*ed !
RE: Front wheel lock-up - steventh - 24-12-2009
Champ,
My condolances to your mate.
Its terrible hearing tragedies like this. The bruising will go, the bones mend but the kiwi accent will probably be a disability he wil have to persevere with forever...there but for the grace of god...
Cheers
RE: Front wheel lock-up - keno77 - 27-12-2009
abs was my first thought too- though will be extremely hard to prove if its only an intermittent fault and has cleared. cant really add any more ideas than the others have come up with
RE: Front wheel lock-up - Champs - 29-12-2009
I asked about the ABS question raised and was told it was a non-ABS version of the bike. Seems the front wheel did actually lock up almost instantly and the front wheel crossed up, rear of the bike raised and then came down crooked, spat him off and then cartwheeled down the road (somewhat different to my first description).
Still a complete bloody mystery how something like this could happen. He still intends to fight the charge in court even though he realises it will be difficult to substantiate his story. The charge has even less to substantiate it, so it will be interesting to see what happens.
RE: Front wheel lock-up - arthur dunga - 29-12-2009
Has he been back to check the road surface where the accident happened? I know of three incidents in recent years where poor road suface has caused front ends to go & cause nasty crashes. One was Balls, series of three pot holes under brakes (correct me if not so) threw him off & another out Korumbura way, the same road surface/pothole caused two other bikes to loose front ends under brakes,On different weekends
I have experienced the the front locking momentarily under brakes fairly often , especially under heavy braking on rough surfaces.
Just re read this post ,my reply seems irrelevent.