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+--- Thread: hot weather performance (/showthread.php?tid=14079)
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hot weather performance - dddd - 17-12-2009
The last couple of rides I have had the bike doesn't feel as if it has been pulling quite as hard as normal mostly in the 8-11000 rpm range , thinking back I noticed they were on hot days 28 to 30 C .
I realise in general motors dont make as much power on hot days but I'm curious to see if anyone else has noticed this slight drop in performance on hot days on their busa's
RE: hot weather performance - simmo - 17-12-2009
(17-12-2009, 09:52am)dddd Wrote: The last couple of rides I have had the bike doesn't feel as if it has been pulling quite as hard as normal mostly in the 8-11000 rpm range , thinking back I noticed they were on hot days 28 to 30 C .
I realise in general motors dont make as much power on hot days but I'm curious to see if anyone else has noticed this slight drop in performance on hot days on their busa's
At the drags mine performs the best (.10 better) when air is cool before a storm, the heat just sucks the oxygen out of the air & ME
RE: hot weather performance - Camel - 17-12-2009
I'm not sure how to link to a specific post, so I'll just cut and paste it. Here's what I found recently:
For the entire run I had my air/fuel ratio meter mounted on the top triple clamp giving me the good news in real time. The data comes from a Bosch LSU 4.2 wideband oxygen sensor which has a laser trimmed calibration chip and is managed by a Tech Edge WB0 datalogger. The datalogger is also calibrated to air.
The K8 is dead stock, including the ECU maps, apart from removal of 1st-4th gear and top speed restrictions and a switch that allows me to turn off the stock HO2 sensor without invoking a fault code.
We all rode responsibly at normal Hayabusa cruising speeds for the duration of the trip and all paid for it at the pump.
Saturday was stinking hot (high ambient air temperature) and Sunday morning cool.
Here's what I found.
As per ECU code research, the Gen II Busa has a 'window' in which the HO2 sensor operates in closed loop. It starts at 2000 rpm and ends at 6000 rpm. Within this window the ECU doggedly holds the air/fuel ratio at lambda (14.7 parts air to 1 part of fuel). Outside the window, with high ambient air temp the bike runs excessively rich; ranging between 11.8:1 to 12.4:1. When cool (approx 18 degrees celcius) it sits around 13.1:1 to 13.4:1 - prime power territory.
With the HO2S switched off, the bike again runs excessively rich (avg 12.6:1) all the way from low rpm through to high rpm. Actually, the faster I went the richer it got. I got the impression the ram air compensation formula is not right for Australian conditions, (and neither is the 'rich' margin). I also noted that the engine coolant temperature dropped the faster I went!
What's going on? Well, at this stage it's just conjecture, (logging to commence this week) but I reckon Suzuki went for a big fat margin of error to accommodate fitment of aftermarket pipes. It also went rich because a rich mixture provides lower noise emissions, (PAIR, catalytic converters and the HO2S fix the exhaust emissions). The third reason I believe Suzuki went for a rich margin was to help prevent detonation. The Hayabusa doesn't have a knock sensor, therefore having a rich mixture helps reduce the potential for pre-ignition or detonation.
It all equals higher fuel consumption and less power.
It ran better when it was cool.
Camel
RE: hot weather performance - BUSGO - 17-12-2009
I have always found that my busas have run better and more responsive on cool days and at altitude.
If you could fit an intercooler to a busa it would be great.
RE: hot weather performance - BikerBoy - 17-12-2009
(17-12-2009, 05:18pm)BUSGO Wrote: I have always found that my busas have run better and more responsive on cool days and at altitude.
The cold air is more dense. It contains more O2 molecules per volume,
so in a combustion engine it can provide a stronger charge. That's why
turbo's and NOS give more power. Turbo's compress the air and NOS will freeze the air.
Add a little extra fuel to that cold air and you've got a rocket.
RE: hot weather performance - fasterfaster - 17-12-2009
(17-12-2009, 05:18pm)BUSGO Wrote: I have always found that my busas have run better and more responsive on cool days and at altitude.
If you could fit an intercooler to a busa it would be great.
So it runs better when the air temp is cooler with more density but then also runs better at altitude where the air has less density ?
Even given that air temp drops 2 degrees for every 1000 F of altitude sounds very contradictory to me ?Maj has and builds intercoolers for Busa's (available now)
Nitrous oxide is 2 molecules of nitrogen chemically bonded to 1 molecule of oxygen (N2o) When introduced to your engine the heat of cumbustion breaks the chemical bond and hence provides more oxygen for your engine to burn more fuel. Bigger the bang faster you go.
RE: hot weather performance - GRUNTMAX - 18-12-2009
On a turbo charged road bike, I'd use an intercooler, built and fitted by Australia's No1 Busa Engineer @ S & R Pro @ Penrith in Sydney. Been there, done that.
On a turbo charged drag bike, I'd use 2 additional charge air cooling systems not mentioned.
On a naturally aspirated busa, I wouldn't waste my time or money & just do a job on the gearbox.
RE: hot weather performance - dddd - 18-12-2009
Well its good to know my bike is not the only one that disapproves of the hot weather.
Grunt max " do a job on the gearbox " ???????
RE: hot weather performance - fasterfaster - 18-12-2009
(18-12-2009, 06:58am)dddd Wrote: Well its good to know my bike is not the only one that disapproves of the hot weather.dddd having your bike re mapped correctly is a good start to cutting the effect that a hot day appears to be having on your bike.
Grunt max " do a job on the gearbox " ???????
Ice cooler ................. water injection ............ "gearbox job" undercut gears. And true an intercooler on even small turbo bikes is overkill but the question for availability was asked.
"Australias Number 1 Mower Repairs Engineer"
WERE LIKE YOUR GRASS >>>>>>> WE GROW ON YOU
[attachment=8530]
RE: hot weather performance - Camel - 18-12-2009
RE: hot weather performance - BUSGO - 18-12-2009
(17-12-2009, 08:57pm)fasterfaster Wrote:(17-12-2009, 05:18pm)BUSGO Wrote: I have always found that my busas have run better and more responsive on cool days and at altitude.
If you could fit an intercooler to a busa it would be great.
So it runs better when the air temp is cooler with more density but then also runs better at altitude where the air has less density ?
Maj has and builds intercoolers for Busa's (available now)
Nitrous oxide is 2 molecules of nitrogen chemically bonded to 1 molecule of oxygen (N2o) When introduced to your engine the heat of cumbustion breaks the chemical bond and hence provides more oxygen for your engine to burn more fuel. Bigger the bang faster you go.
Well it is a fact. The altitude I am talking about is only up to about 1600 metres.
I am sure that a lot of "naturally aspiriated busa" riders will have the same enjoyment when they get "HIGH in the hills" or when night riding in summer without any need for bike mods.
RE: hot weather performance - GRUNTMAX - 18-12-2009
(18-12-2009, 06:58am)dddd Wrote: Well its good to know my bike is not the only one that disapproves of the hot weather.Hi ratio 5th & 6th, low ratio 1st, up one tooth on the front sprocket, down one tooth at the back. While your at it, may as well throw a heavy duty output shaft in & ceramic bearings if you really want.
Grunt max " do a job on the gearbox " ???????
Cheers
(18-12-2009, 07:30am)fasterfaster Wrote:This bloke, Australia's No1 Busa Engineer has remapped & built more turbo busas in Australia than anybody. I figure the viewers would prefer a photo of the said engineer as apposed to your lawn mower photo Pete, after all mate, this is a Busa site. Sorry it's not a Gen2 fellas, my apologies.(18-12-2009, 06:58am)dddd Wrote: Well its good to know my bike is not the only one that disapproves of the hot weather.dddd having your bike re mapped correctly is a good start to cutting the effect that a hot day appears to be having on your bike.
Grunt max " do a job on the gearbox " ???????
Ice cooler ................. water injection ............ "gearbox job" undercut gears. And true an intercooler on even small turbo bikes is overkill but the question for availability was asked.
"Australias Number 1 Mower Repairs Engineer"
WERE LIKE YOUR GRASS >>>>>>> WE GROW ON YOU
[attachment=8532]
RE: hot weather performance - fasterfaster - 18-12-2009
Thats ok mate ................ I have been trying to find a picture of Jeremy Burgess on a bike
Not that I put myself in the same league as the man but certianly in the same manner I just quietly strive to achieve and let my results speak volumes.Given the distance people travel for my services I guess something must be being done right
Ray your bike is indeed unique as it defies the laws of physics
RE: hot weather performance - dddd - 18-12-2009
(18-12-2009, 07:30am)fasterfaster Wrote:So are we saying there are people out their that have cracked the std ecu and can now reprogram it , if so who does this and how much does it cost .(18-12-2009, 06:58am)dddd Wrote: Well its good to know my bike is not the only one that disapproves of the hot weather.dddd having your bike re mapped correctly is a good start to cutting the effect that a hot day appears to be having on your bike.
Grunt max " do a job on the gearbox " ???????
Ice cooler ................. water injection ............ "gearbox job" undercut gears. And true an intercooler on even small turbo bikes is overkill but the question for availability was asked.
"Australias Number 1 Mower Repairs Engineer"
WERE LIKE YOUR GRASS >>>>>>> WE GROW ON YOU
Can they just flash in a program for say a std gen 2 with slip ons without having to put it on the dyno
RE: hot weather performance - fasterfaster - 18-12-2009
dddd
This string below gives agood indication of who is flashing ECU's
http://www.australian-hayabusa-club.com/MyBB/showthread.php?tid=13442
Petri in Sweden cracked the ECU and wrote a program to flash it and is used extensively world wide now.
Any fueling adjustment really requires a method of measuring fuel readings so one knows what one is adjusting from and adjusting to. Anything else is like downloading fuel maps from the net ..... pretty hit n miss.
You can rest assured contrary to what some may tell you even a standard bike has much to gain from being correctly mapped.
Limiters can certianly also be removed from the ECU ....... even without having the bike (Race use only of course)
Flashing is unbeaten for cost effective results with a multitude of features available.