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+--- Thread: light load surge finally nailed (/showthread.php?tid=9959)
RE: light load surge finally nailed - fasterfaster - 20-04-2010
Rb I think your chasing the prob in the wrong area.......... from info you have given symptons are more prone to be occuring at light throttle settings which to me is indicating fuel delivery or mapping fault.
Odds on it's running to lean at light throttle and the motor is "hunting" which is creating the surge effect.
Also check TPS setting (with a volt meter)
Just my .0000001 cents worth
RE: light load surge finally nailed - rb3221 - 21-04-2010
(20-04-2010, 07:19pm)Legend Wrote:(20-04-2010, 06:08am)rb3221 Wrote: What reading should you when you test a TRE with a meter.
Ran the motor up to 2000 rpm's and pulled the clutch and the revs dropped when the clutch is pulled.
To be honest, I use a 10c resistor (5.6k ohms) to do the job. I would "assume" the resistance of the tre would be the same (5th gear gps resistance).
It sounds like yours is working ok thou.
Leonard.
Thanks Leonard, I thought it was working also.
Quote:Rb I think your chasing the prob in the wrong area.......... from info you have given symptons are more prone to be occuring at light throttle settings which to me is indicating fuel delivery or mapping fault.
Odds on it's running to lean at light throttle and the motor is "hunting" which is creating the surge effect.
Also check TPS setting (with a volt meter)
Just my .0000001 cents worth
fasterfaster,
I though that too after the last one I had do this, but I have gone through the map as well as remapped even took it for a run and logged O2 and checked it and all seamed right. The only reason I though it maybe electrical was that it started a few month ago with a very mild serge when he was riding around town (under 60k's) but nothing on the highway then it stopped. 2 weeks ago just as he was going for a ride it came back this time it was in every gear around town and on the highway at any speed. So the first thing I did was check all the common things, then I checked TPS (but I did not check it with a volt meter), fuel pump pressure, fuel lines, injectors, all the sensors and even pulled out the pink wire. The only thing I could find was when I put an ohm meter over the GPS I get no readings at all.
RE: light load surge finally nailed - kevin - 21-04-2010
(26-05-2008, 06:35pm)kitmark Wrote: Anyone know a vendor where I can get a SMART TRE from?i got mine from http://www.pashnit.com/bikes/hayabusa.htm
it should help
RE: light load surge finally nailed - Maj - 21-04-2010
smart tre can't work right if there is no gps readings , check the pink wire at the gps end from connector down, i think it has been cut previously , either that or there is a fault in the gps unit or wire ,
if your black and blue (or green) has a circuit (which it will or there would be no neutral light) it will confirm there is a pink wire fault, if there is no neut circuit check your procedure .
RE: light load surge finally nailed - Legend - 21-04-2010
Thats why I use a resistor on the early models, easy to check, it either works or it doesn't!
RE: light load surge finally nailed - rb3221 - 27-04-2010
UPDATE.
Well after trying everything that everyone suggested and having no luck. I decided not to touch it at all last week (also had other work on), well bugger me dead the mate come over yesterday and took it for a run to see how bad it was and it did not do it at all it ran sweet as, so I still did not know what was doing it.
So now he going to take it for a good run on the weekend and see if it comes back.
RE: light load surge finally nailed - donovandon100 - 31-05-2010
Hi,had a quick scroll through and this seems to have similar symptoms to mine a 2001 before it started to "bog down".
I got some pretty solid advice from "FasterandFaster" Pete.
I notice no mention of checking the fuel flow or volume.
I had everything checking out fine for four months,
I put up with intermittent surging and some days the bike ran better
than other days.
I also remembered there is a very easy way to check a Fuel Pump.
What is required is an Amps clamp and an scope.
All the info on how test the pump is on google OR
If you have acess to a SNAP-ON MODIS scanner,:)
all the relevant information is on the scanner including,
The formulas required to make the relevant calculations.
Or to quote the master "Get your wifes measuring jug out"
RE: light load surge finally nailed - rb3221 - 15-06-2010
Well, after nearly 2 months of my mate riding his busa (That I have been talking about) with out even a sign of a problem the dam surging came back on the way home yesterday so it looks like I will be back trying to find the problem.
donovandon100 ,
yes I did test the fuel pump, I took it out of the the bike and ran it on my fuel flow bench (it dose both injectors and pumps) and the pressure and flow was good.
RE: light load surge finally nailed - kevin - 15-06-2010
(25-05-2008, 05:13pm)BUSGO Wrote: TRE = Timing Retard Eliminator.
It gets rid of the automatic timing retard built into the SUZUKI ignition computer.
On some models, including the Hayabusa, Suzuki have put a timing retard in the system between 1,000 and 4,000 rpm to make the bike a bit more docile in the 1st four gears.
On the models after 2000, it also restricts the top speed by fooling the computer into restricting the rev limiter to 10,000 rpm. This ensures that top speed doesn't go over about 295kph.
A simple TRE tells the computer that the gears are always in 5th so that the retard is gone and the speed limiter is disabled.
A SMART TRE also enables the computer to recognise when the bike is in neutral so that the idle speed is not interferred with.
A Hayabusa must idle at 1050rpm + or - 50rpm for the fuel system to work properly.
A GIPro is a Smart TRE that also has a gear indicator that you can mount on the dash to let you know what hear you are really in.
i have one on the k8 and i think the bike still revs to 11500 rpm.the stock bike pecks out at 311 with the tre ihad it to 323 but still no flat nack and not at the red maby it does peak out at 1050 soon find out
RE: light load surge finally nailed - kevin - 15-06-2010
(15-06-2010, 08:07am)kevin Wrote:yes tested the revs today peakes out at 11500 so you r full of shit ithink you should get your facts right or dont wast our time(25-05-2008, 05:13pm)BUSGO Wrote: TRE = Timing Retard Eliminator.
It gets rid of the automatic timing retard built into the SUZUKI ignition computer.
On some models, including the Hayabusa, Suzuki have put a timing retard in the system between 1,000 and 4,000 rpm to make the bike a bit more docile in the 1st four gears.
On the models after 2000, it also restricts the top speed by fooling the computer into restricting the rev limiter to 10,000 rpm. This ensures that top speed doesn't go over about 295kph.
A simple TRE tells the computer that the gears are always in 5th so that the retard is gone and the speed limiter is disabled.
A SMART TRE also enables the computer to recognise when the bike is in neutral so that the idle speed is not interferred with.
A Hayabusa must idle at 1050rpm + or - 50rpm for the fuel system to work properly.
A GIPro is a Smart TRE that also has a gear indicator that you can mount on the dash to let you know what hear you are really in.
i have one on the k8 and i think the bike still revs to 11500 rpm.the stock bike pecks out at 311 with the tre ihad it to 323 but still no flat nack and not at the red maby it does peak out at 1050 soon find out
RE: light load surge finally nailed - evilRasp - 15-06-2010
(15-06-2010, 08:18pm)kevin Wrote: yes tested the revs today peakes out at 11500 so you r full of shit ithink you should get your facts right or dont wast our time
BUSGO is completely right. The 'busa ECUs from the factory restrict RPM in sixth gear, giving a top speed in both 5th and 6th of around 295 km/h.
The solution that a TRE provides is to trick the ECU into thinking that 6th is 5th via the gear position sensor. No 6th gear rev limit, so you can go faster than the artificially imposed RPM limit. They're hardly the only bikes to use this method to restrict top speed either.
RE: light load surge finally nailed - kevin - 15-06-2010
(15-06-2010, 09:17pm)evilRasp Wrote:the stock bike 311 of the shelf no tre(15-06-2010, 08:18pm)kevin Wrote: yes tested the revs today peakes out at 11500 so you r full of shit ithink you should get your facts right or dont wast our time
BUSGO is completely right. The 'busa ECUs from the factory restrict RPM in sixth gear, giving a top speed in both 5th and 6th of around 295 km/h.
The solution that a TRE provides is to trick the ECU into thinking that 6th is 5th via the gear position sensor. No 6th gear rev limit, so you can go faster than the artificially imposed RPM limit. They're hardly the only bikes to use this method to restrict top speed either.
(15-06-2010, 09:36pm)kevin Wrote:(15-06-2010, 09:17pm)evilRasp Wrote:the stock bike 311 of the shelf no tre(15-06-2010, 08:18pm)kevin Wrote: yes tested the revs today peakes out at 11500 so you r full of shit ithink you should get your facts right or dont wast our time
BUSGO is completely right. The 'busa ECUs from the factory restrict RPM in sixth gear, giving a top speed in both 5th and 6th of around 295 km/h.
The solution that a TRE provides is to trick the ECU into thinking that 6th is 5th via the gear position sensor. No 6th gear rev limit, so you can go faster than the artificially imposed RPM limit. They're hardly the only bikes to use this method to restrict top speed either.
295 the bike revs to 11500 does not mater if a 4 gear set to 6 gear set
4 is by far the farstest i still have not had 6 to red line run out of road
RE: light load surge finally nailed - Norvin - 10-07-2010
G"Day fella"s,
just a short update on my origonal posting at the start of this thread, the old 2000 busa is still as smooth as silk on all throttle openings since fitting the tre to cure an intermittent surge that Suzuki failed to find, it runs smoother than my B King even though it is 8 years older, I am currently working on a 98 TLR - ironing out starting hassles,
Regards Norvin.
RE: light load surge finally nailed - Ward P - 21-02-2011
(27-04-2010, 06:31am)rb3221 Wrote: UPDATE.
Well after trying everything that everyone suggested and having no luck. I decided not to touch it at all last week (also had other work on), well bugger me dead the mate come over yesterday and took it for a run to see how bad it was and it did not do it at all it ran sweet as, so I still did not know what was doing it.
So now he going to take it for a good run on the weekend and see if it comes back.
I know this is a pretty old thread, but wondering if the cure for your particular problem was ever found? Reading bac thru the posts shows that there is obviously quite a few things that cause this problem, so it's a matter of trial and error to find what has/is starting to fail.
(31-03-2010, 05:56pm)Ward P Wrote: I would be interested in comments by "those that know" (those in the game) as to the above. Took it for another ride today and it was sweeeeet! - but it was intermittant before, so I'm waiting to see if the "surging" re-appears.
In my situation, the smart TRE worked, surging has never re-appeared.
RE: light load surge finally nailed - Ward P - 18-01-2012
(21-02-2011, 01:23pm)Ward P Wrote:(27-04-2010, 06:31am)rb3221 Wrote: UPDATE.
Well after trying everything that everyone suggested and having no luck. I decided not to touch it at all last week (also had other work on), well bugger me dead the mate come over yesterday and took it for a run to see how bad it was and it did not do it at all it ran sweet as, so I still did not know what was doing it.
So now he going to take it for a good run on the weekend and see if it comes back.
I know this is a pretty old thread, but wondering if the cure for your particular problem was ever found? Reading bac thru the posts shows that there is obviously quite a few things that cause this problem, so it's a matter of trial and error to find what has/is starting to fail.
(31-03-2010, 05:56pm)Ward P Wrote: I would be interested in comments by "those that know" (those in the game) as to the above. Took it for another ride today and it was sweeeeet! - but it was intermittant before, so I'm waiting to see if the "surging" re-appears.
In my situation, the smart TRE worked, surging has never re-appeared.
another 12 months on - surging has never returned.
