+- Welcome to The Australian Hayabusa Club Forum - ARCHIVE ONLY VERSION - NEW REGISTRATIONS & POSTS DISABLED (https://www.australian-hayabusa-club.com/MyBB)
+-- Forum: Bike Discussions (https://www.australian-hayabusa-club.com/MyBB/forumdisplay.php?fid=35)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.australian-hayabusa-club.com/MyBB/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Thread: The old removing your helmet trick (/showthread.php?tid=17036)
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Aussie Steve - 12-04-2011
Well I have been told to remove my helmet before they would turn on the pump....you can argue all you like but at the end of the day you want something, (sometimes desperately) and they are legally entitled to payment for it so I guess you choose
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Dan85 - 12-04-2011
If you look around in most service stations there are stickers up that include no smoking, no mobile phone use and removal of helmets. i dont see the big issue with removing your helmet it takes all of about 3 seconds to take off and maybe 5 going back on.
Tenacious: its not a power trip when she is following company directives so effectively your stopping her doing her job by being a bit of a dick head. she wasnt the one who made the australia wide descision for just about every service station, that helmets are not to be worn. she is the one trying to do her job and gets abused for it. if you dont like a businesses rules and procedures then shop else where its pretty simple mate. Maybe a bit of common coutesy and politeness wouldnt hurt on your part. 9/10 times if someone comes at you with an attitude and you respond politely the person realises they have been a dick and settle down. 10/10 times you respond to attitude with a worse attiude theres gonna be a conflict. If I owned a servo and you came in with that sorta attidude i woulda drained the fuel back out of the bike and sent on your way.
as motorcyclists are we not stereotyped enough without acts of behaviour like this?
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - BikerBoy - 12-04-2011
(12-04-2011, 01:11pm)Dan85 Wrote: as motorcyclists are we not stereotyped enough without acts of behaviour like this?
So true
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Belzybob - 12-04-2011
Still looking for legal info on this, but the following popped on on the Australian Fed Police web site about stores and 'bag searches'. I'll continue to see if I can find anything on helmets.
One method of displaying conditions of
entry is using prominently displayed notices
that clearly set out conditions of entry. The
notices should be as large as practicable and
displayed at a point where they can be seen
clearly prior to entry to the business.
However, even though a customer may read
the sign and enter the store he/she is under
no legal obligation to allow a search of their
bags, even a visual search. The business may
ask to see inside the bag, but if refused they
cannot demand.
They cannot 'arrest' you and if a person continues to refuse they can only ask that you leave the store.
*Update - Nothing I can find places any legal requirement to comply with helmet signage, and nothing clear on the refusal to accept payment issue. Some of the big chains state in their releases state things such as "Customers are requested to remove helmets......", but none I have seen state that 'service is refused to anyone wearing a helmet'.
So, aside from those that adopt the 'good citizen' position, I can see that nothing forces a person to remove their helmet merely to pay. Of course the attendant may refuse to activate the pump, but that is the perogative of any retailer. If you offer to make payment and they refuse to accept it....................
As an aside, it can be fun somethimes on a busy saturday morning to go through the whole divestment process (specs, ear plugs, gloves etc.) and see people getting all wound up because they want the pump. I just indicate the helmet sign as I ride away :-)
I wonder how many hold-ups involve a motorcycle helmet and how many involve hoodies, sunnies or other concealment devices? The main issue is beat up old Falcons and Commodores driving off without payment.
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Dan85 - 12-04-2011
Belzy thats true and once you have been asked to leave the store by owner/manager/member of staff and you do not leave as quickly as reasonably possible you are guilty of tresspass which they then can physically remove you, in most stores there is a sign at the entrance stating presenting bags for search is a condition of entry and if you do not comply your arse also then guilty of tresspass from what i can understand. however removal of helmets is a different kettle of fish to searches, as the deal with removal of helmets came about because to many attendents where getting there head bashed in by theives wearing masks or helmets. As a service station is private property as soon as you cross the property boundary if you are asked to remove your helmet and you dont you can be directed to leave and you have to its as simple as that so if the manager has decided Tenacious is no longer welcome on the business property for a)not complying with conditions of entry, b)verbally assualting staff, if he returns he is guilty of tresspass and can be arrested for that.
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Belzybob - 12-04-2011
Ummm, did you read anything that I wrote Dan?
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Dan85 - 12-04-2011
yeah I just thought i was reaffirming what you said plus a bit about being guilty of and being able to be arrested for trespass which was aimed at tenacsious's final comment about being back the next day.
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Rainbow7 - 12-04-2011
(12-04-2011, 01:00pm)BikerBoy Wrote: (a servo counts as public road, and puting fuel in is classed as operating the motorcycle)
I think you'll find that it is in fact private property. Also, if refueling counts as "operating the motorcycle", the same would apply to anyone putting fuel in a car/truck, yet I have never seen anyone get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt while filling up their car...
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - BikerBoy - 12-04-2011
(12-04-2011, 03:40pm)Rainbow7 Wrote:(12-04-2011, 01:00pm)BikerBoy Wrote: (a servo counts as public road, and puting fuel in is classed as operating the motorcycle)
I think you'll find that it is in fact private property. Also, if refueling counts as "operating the motorcycle", the same would apply to anyone putting fuel in a car/truck, yet I have never seen anyone get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt while filling up their car...
If the traffic law forum wasn't down at the moment I'd be able to give you the specific laws and what it says. What I wrote was 100% correct. Yes it is classed as a public road, and yes you can be fined, but first you need a cop petty enough to actualy follow that law of operating the vehicle. There has been cases of it happening though (not wearing the helmet).
A public road is defined by the law as being anywhere that the general public are expected to drive and ALL associated laws apply, regardless of private land ownership.
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Ward P - 12-04-2011
Why not wear a burqa over your helmet.
or maybe . . .
if we start a new religion.
1st commandment could be that a motorcycle helmet should always be worn whilst riding a motorcycle, or if between riding for more than 5 minutes.
2nd commandment would be to refuse scooter riders admittance.
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Dale - 12-04-2011
My wife works for Woolworths petrol and she says that in all the time she has been there (6 ~ 9 months) she has only ever had trouble with one motorcyclist ( was that you tenacious ??
). She finds in general, that if someone enters the store with their helmet on, and she asks them to remove it (which she has to by order of her boss) they do immediately and without a fuss. She says she has a lot more trouble with car drivers, as she won't activate the pump while they are on their mobiles .. and then they get upset (dickheads).I used to be like Tenacious, and abuse staff who were only doing their jobs .. but I grew up. How would you like it bro if it was someone else having a go at your wife, sister, mother etc ??. You probably scared the sh*t out of the poor woman ..
at the end of the day i'm with Dan, how hard is it really to undo ya helmet. I like to remove mine for 2 reasons .. 1) a bit of fresh air .. 2) to take 5 mins to put it back on to p*ss off the impatient car drivers like belzybob
Cheers .. Dale
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Belzybob - 12-04-2011
(12-04-2011, 03:34pm)Dan85 Wrote: yeah I just thought i was reaffirming what you said plus a bit about being guilty of and being able to be arrested for trespass which was aimed at tenacsious's final comment about being back the next day.
Nope, I was basically refuting any suggestion that was anything close to the correct position. The item about bag checking was a good illustration that signs in shops actually mean jack.
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - moshy_7 - 12-04-2011
(12-04-2011, 05:19pm)Dale Wrote: My wife works for Woolworths petrol and she says that in all the time she has been there (6 ~ 9 months) she has only ever had trouble with one motorcyclist ( was that you tenacious ??
I used to be like Tenacious, and abuse staff who were only doing their jobs .. but I grew up. How would you like it bro if it was someone else having a go at your wife, sister, mother etc ??. You probably scared the sh*t out of the poor woman ..
at the end of the day i'm with Dan, how hard is it really to undo ya helmet. I like to remove mine for 2 reasons .. 1) a bit of fresh air .. 2) to take 5 mins to put it back on to p*ss off the impatient car drivers like belzybob
Cheers .. Dale
+1
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Skidmarx - 12-04-2011
wow, i must be backwards or somehting, i hate wearing helmets, even nice ones as i have a realy big head, my lid comes off even before the motor is stopped, i listen to the motor without the lid for a couple of seconds to hear if theres any rattles or clunks that shouldnt be there, then bike off, stand down and go about my buissness
RE: The old removing your helmet trick - Dale - 12-04-2011
(12-04-2011, 06:26pm)Skidmarx Wrote: wow, i must be backwards or somehting, i hate wearing helmets, even nice ones as i have a realy big head, my lid comes off even before the motor is stopped, i listen to the motor without the lid for a couple of seconds to hear if theres any rattles or clunks that shouldnt be there, then bike off, stand down and go about my buissness
I'm actually claustrophobic, so I can't even stand wearing the helmet when i'm not moving. I guess thats like a pilot who is afraid of heights ..
I can hear my engines rattles and clunks with my helmet on ..
